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The following is the transcription of an interview with the former commissioner of the FDA, Scott Gottlieb, member of the board of directors of Pfizer and non -executive chairman of the board of directors of Illumina, broadcast on “Face The Nation with Margaret Brennan” on June 29, 2025.
Margaret Brennan: For a glance now on some of the changes in American public health policies under the Trump administration, we are joined by the former FDA commissioner, Dr. Scott Gottlieb, who sits on the board of directors of Pfizer and is now the chairman of the board of directors of Ilumina. Good morning. Nice to see you.
Doctor Scott Gottlieb: Hello.
Margaret Brennan: You know, Dr. Gottlieb, you worked in the first Trump administration. This second Trump administration seems very different in his approach to public health on many fronts. One of them was really exposed this week with this newly redone advisory committee on vaccination practices, or ACIP. Secretary Kennedy had rejected around 17 members of the existing council and made some members of his choice. And in a video, the president of the American Academy of Pediatrics said that federal immunization policy is, “more a credible process” and that it is politicized to the detriment of children. It is a fairly surprising statement. Do you agree with the Academy of Pediatrics?
Dr. Gottlieb: Listen, you are right. I worked in the first Trump administration. I had the chance to do so and proud to serve in this administration. I think we have done a lot of important things about public health. We chaired the first approvals of gene and gene therapy. The president tried to extend access to these treatments through the right to try the legislation he defended. He supported the FDA in order to try to keep tobacco products outside the hands of children, the number of generic approvals recordings and many other achievements. I think that many people on my side of the political aisle believe that many of these policies that secretary Kennedy defend – will be contained in vaccines and not bleeding in a wider public health doctrine. I think it’s not good. I think there are many people now who do not think that these things are particularly political, or should not be, and do not think that these decisions should be politically decided, which will find when they go to the doctor’s office that the vaccines that they may want to protect their life or their family life will not be available. It looks like a political process right now. The secretary will after problems that have long been bugaboos of him and his anti-Vax group, Children’s Health Defense for a long time. I don’t think it’s wrong at this stage. I think he would probably recognize it. That he addresses problems he has defended in the past 20 years to restrict access to certain vaccines. It will grow. The list is increasing, and it will start to be very tangible for people and go far beyond the cocvid vaccine, that is to say, I think, what most people think when they perceive this administration, or the secretary’s efforts, to try to restrict access to vaccines.
Margaret Brennan: Thus, one of the specific things of this meeting was a advice to avoid vaccines against flu containing an ingredient called Thimérosal. Until the same time as Reunion, the CDC deleted information from its website which has demystified claims that this ingredient was linked to autism. Secretary Kennedy says it is – it is journalists who obscure the truth. What should people know about the influenza vaccine and this ingredient?
Dr. Gottlieb: Yes, it is therefore an old ingredient. It is a preservative used in multi-doses of flu vaccine, mainly. Only a very small percentage of flasks of influenza vaccine always contain it. What it is an ingredient that is added to multi-dose bottles because these bottles you are going to enter and go out with different needles when you administer the vaccine to different patients. They are therefore not single dose injections. These are multi-dose bottles that have mainly used in certain occupied clinics, almost exclusively in adults at the moment. In the early 2000s, I was at the FDA when we reformulated the vaccine, so we forced manufacturers to reformulate vaccines to withdraw this preservative. Not because we thought it was dangerous, but because there was a lot of dismay among the anti-Vax groups that they thought there was a link between this ingredient and this autism. The ingredient contains small quantities of ethylmercure, and not methylmercurus, ethylmercide, which is the same type of mercury found in fish, in very small quantities. And so we have forced manufacturers to reformulate the vast majority of vaccines, still four percent of flu vaccines that are administered, mainly to adults, come from these multi-doses bottles. It has long been a bugaboo from the secretary and his group, the Children’s Health Defense Fund. In fact, the only presentation at the APIP meeting was from the leader of this group. And you are right, there has been a smuggling analysis of CDC officials claiming that there is no link between Thimérosal and Autism. This – This analysis was removed from the website. The secretary published a statement that said it was not the case – she did not undergo an appropriate examination.
Margaret Brennan: We are going to take a break, Dr. Gottlieb, and speak more with you on the other side. These are complicated problems I want to dig with you. So we hope you all stay with us.
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Margaret Brennan: Welcome to the nation. We return to our conversation with the former FDA commissioner, Dr. Scott Gottlieb. Dr. Gottlieb, just to resume, we were talking about the meeting that took place last week with the newly reconstituted advisory committee on vaccination. The republican senator Bill Cassidy, you know him, he is a doctor. He monitored and chaired the health committee. He called for the cancellation of the meeting because he said that there was no director of the CDC in place. And with regard to these named people, he said that many of them “have no significant experience in studying microbiology, epidemiology or immunology” and that they can have “preconceived biases” against mRNA vaccines. It is – I am not a doctor, but it seems to me that the experience in immunology would be important if you advise vaccinations. His advice was ignored here. Is there control over secretary Kennedy at this point? Is there a need to set up a CDC director quickly?
Dr. Gottlieb: Yes, well, the director of the CDC had a confirmation audience this week, and I hope she will soon be in place. I think it is quite strong and a good choice for this work. The Board of Directors, this ACIPI board of directors, is not entirely constituted. There are only seven members on the board of directors. At his membership, he was about 15 years old. And you are right, many people who have been named have no deep experience, or no experience, quite frankly, in the science of vaccines. These are people who have been ideologically aligned with secretary Kennedy in the past and who have worked with him, many of them, not all. And I think it is not something that even the secretary would probably dispute at the moment, and it has led to difficult times at this meeting. For example, you know, a member must have explained the difference between antibody prophylaxis and a vaccine. There was therefore evidence in this discussion where CDC directors had to provide, frankly, assistance properly to help inform these members based on the science of vaccines. So this has shown, hopefully, once they fully constitute this advice, you will get more balance on it. I think some people are skeptical. I hope there will be good members who will end up.
Margaret Brennan: You know, one of the things about the American health system is the question of continuous innovation. Earlier this month, the FDA approved an injection twice a year from a HIV prevention drug called Lenacapavir. What is the importance of an innovation like this, and given the environment you are talking about, will these new advisers hinder the market for this kind of thing?
Dr. Gottlieb: Yes, that should not come before ACIP. It is therefore a therapy. It is a long interim antiviral which offers six months of protection against HIV and has been extremely effective in preventing HIV infection in a high risk population of contracting HIV. It is therefore a change in the formulation of an antiviral which allows it to be administered twice a year and to provide sustained exposure to the advantages of this antiviral. We see a lot of innovation like this. There were also news this week from a small biotechnology company with which I have no involvement, with which they had developed a pill that could offer sustained protection against flu. It is therefore an antiviral, but it is formulated in a way it – it could be administered once before the flu season, to offer protection throughout the season, and also seems to be very effective. So we see a lot of innovations like this. What worries me is innovation in the science of vaccines. I work on the venture capital side, where we make investments in new companies, and there has been a decline in biotechnological startups that have sought to develop new vaccines, for example, vaccines for the Epstein-Barr virus, which we know are linked to certain B cell lymphomas, and is perhaps linked to multiple sclerosis. It is – it is a new field of science, the potential to vaccinate children against this, just as we will vaccinate children against HPV at the moment and prevent cervical cancer and other types of cancer. Perhaps in the future, we can vaccinate for EBV, but there has been a lot of perspective in this type of investment. I therefore think that we will see less innovation in the science of vaccines following the environment in which we are.
Margaret Brennan: Quickly, secretary Kennedy was questioned this week on the statements in some states to start eliminating fluoride from water. Oklahoma has made some movements in this direction. He said that you were going to see “probably a little more cavities”, but “there is a direct reverse correlation between the quantity of fluorine in your water and your loss of Qi”. What should parents think when they hear things like that?
Dr. Gottlieb: Well, look, this was a long -standing problem, another problem that secretary Kennedy defended during his career, this perceived perception that there is a link between fluorine and water and certain neurotoxic effects of this. This has been studied thoroughly. It was, I think, fully demystified. There are very small amounts of fluorine in water, and at the levels it is put in the water supply, it has been shown that it is sure. CDC’s- has data showing that there is a 25% reduction in dental cavities following fluorine which is systematically added to water supply. It is not only a question of increasing dental cavities, but also of oral health, which, as we know, is correlated with systemic health.
Margaret Brennan: Dr. Gottlieb, delighted to have an overview today. We will be back.
