Have the American Pope and the American administration fallen out?

Jesse Romero, a conservative Catholic podcaster, has some choice words for Pope Leo XIV.

“The Pope should tell us how to get to heaven,” Romero says. “He has no authority over the government; he must stay in his lane.”

As a supporter of Donald Trump, he is angry at criticism from the American-born pope and U.S. bishops over his mass expulsion policy.

With one in five Americans identifying as Catholic, the Church plays an important role in American life – and in politics.

Catholics like Vice President JD Vance and influential legal activist Leonard Leo played an important role in Donald Trump’s electoral success. They are also the heart of the cabinet, with Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Secretary of Education Linda McMahon holding key positions.

But the immigration issue has become a fault line between church leaders and the government, as well as among parishioners themselves.

When the cardinals gathered at the papal conclave in May, Romero had hoped for a “Trump-style pope,” with a vision similar to that of the president.

Instead, Pope Leo XIV has repeatedly expressed concerns about how migrants are treated in the United States, calling for “deep reflection” on the issue in November. The pontiff referred to the Gospel of Matthew, adding that “Jesus says very clearly that at the end of the world, we will be asked: ‘How did you receive the stranger?’

A week later, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) issued a rare “special message” expressing “concern over the evolving situation affecting immigrants in the United States.”

The bishops said they were “troubled” by what they called “a climate of fear and anxiety.” They added that they “oppose the mass and indiscriminate expulsions of people” and “pray for an end to the dehumanizing rhetoric and violence.”

This was a significant intervention, the first time the USCCB had used such a communiqué in a dozen years. She was supported by the Pope, who called the statement “very important” and urged all Catholics and “people of good will to listen carefully.”

“I think the relationship is quite strained,” says David Gibson, director of the Center on Religion and Culture at Fordham University.

Conservatives hoped Pope Leo would bring a change from his predecessor Pope Francis’ focus on issues of social justice and migration, according to Gibson.

“A lot of them are angry. They want to tell the church to shut up” and limit itself to issues such as abortion, Mr. Gibson said.

White House border czar Tom Homan — himself a Catholic — said the Church “was wrong” and its leaders “need to spend time fixing the Catholic Church.” And in October, White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt rejected the Chicago-born pope’s suggestion that the United States’ treatment of immigrants was “inhumane” and contrary to “pro-life” beliefs.

Gibson argues that the government’s calculation “is that there are enough American Catholics, particularly white American Catholics, who support the Republican Party and Donald Trump, that it is ultimately politically beneficial to pick a fight with the Pope. It’s an unprecedented calculation.”

Nearly 60% of white Catholics approve of Trump’s handling of immigration, according to a new study from the think tank Public Religion Research Institute. That figure is about 30 percent for Hispanics, who make up 37 percent of the U.S. Catholic population.

The growing power and importance of right-wing Catholics in the political sphere is illustrated by JD Vance, a convert to the religion who says his politics are shaped by his faith. Although he maintained that the current policy is not in contradiction with Church teaching, he also said it is the responsibility to remember the humanity of people who are in the country illegally.

But some Catholics say that’s not what’s happening now. Jeanne Rattenbury is a parishioner of St. Gertrude’s Catholic Church in Chicago. The city is at the center of the Trump administration’s immigration measures.

In November, Ms. Rattenbury participated in a Mass celebration in front of 2,000 people outside an ICE detention center in Chicago’s Broadview neighborhood. The “Popular Mass” was part of a series of actions carried out by the Coalition for Spiritual and Public Leadership (CSPL). The goal, she said, “was to bring communion to the people inside, to heal them, which used to be allowed and is not allowed.”

CSPL has now filed a federal lawsuit, alleging that it is barred from carrying out religious ministry.

“I am proud to be Catholic when the Catholic Church, from the Pope to the bishops, affirms that immigrants have the right to be treated with respect. They have the right to have their inherent human dignity respected,” Ms Rattenbury said.

Such is the strength of the sentiment that a church near Boston used its Christmas nativity scene to argue that Jesus was a refugee.

St. Susanna Parish in Dedham, Massachusetts, replaced the baby Jesus with a hand-painted sign saying “ICE Was Here.”

Some community members complained, and the Catholic Archdiocese of Boston ordered the display removed, saying it was divisive and violated rules on sacred objects. So far the Church has not done this.

Although many American Catholics maintain conservative positions on issues such as abortion, consistent with those of the Church, they are also more likely to consider themselves progressive than white evangelical Christians, who have voted overwhelmingly Republican in the last three elections. In contrast, about a third of white Catholics have consistently voted for the Democratic Party.

And nearly a third of American Catholics were born in other countries. “It’s a church that was built thanks to immigration,” explains David Gibson. “The Catholic brand in the United States is an immigrant church.”

Bishop Joseph Tyson of Yakima, Washington, was one of 216 people who supported the USCCB’s special message. Only five bishops voted against and three abstained.

“There is a fundamental disagreement between how the Church views immigrants in our parishes and how the current administration views immigrants.

“We see a lot more positives in these immigrants.”

He says he does not advocate open borders, an argument Pope Leo has also made, but that he opposes “indiscriminate expulsions.”

“The deportations we are witnessing of our parishioners and our people in the United States [are] not surgical, [or] intended for criminals,” said the bishop.

He estimates that about half of the families in his predominantly Hispanic diocese have someone in their household facing an issue related to their immigration status. Priests too are often immigrants themselves, putting the Church in an increasingly precarious position.

Bishop Tyson says more than a third of the clergy he has ordained have, at some point, been on a temporary visa before obtaining a green card, a process that in today’s climate can seem precarious.

“I have a seminarian in the Chicago area. He has a T visa, but [ICE] showed up and he was afraid of being arrested,” he said.

“Anyone can have their papers revoked, [so] our men carry their papers with them at all times. »

Bishop Tyson says current U.S. policy goes against Catholic teaching.

“This should weigh heavily on the conscience of Catholics in public life who support indiscriminate deportation. This is incompatible with the Gospel of life.”

But for Jesse Romero, it is the American bishops and the pope who oppose Catholic doctrine. He says the Catechism – which summarizes the teachings of the Church – makes it clear that immigrants must obey all laws, including those that determine whether or not they should remain in the country.

“We have a large number of bishops in the Catholic Church in America who have a more modernist, liberal, progressive view of Scripture and theology.”

Romero says he prays for their conversion. If he accepts the Pope and the bishops as leaders of the faith, “this does not mean that in their private opinions they will fix everything. They are men.”

“The only person without sin is Jesus. He is perfect. Everyone, we need to pray for each other.”